path: root/data/notes
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authorYorhel <>2011-02-13 12:06:47 +0100
committerYorhel <>2011-02-13 12:06:47 +0100
commit359627f10128f36f10b1d4714601fc33c3ce3c8a (patch)
treee800c67207f4156315c9b2343cbca4bc7f9b9a0f /data/notes
parent5829b57d55b4173592af1a75f3f014f9a9ae2594 (diff)
chardb: Added notes file and started implementing the traits
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+Character Database
+Last modified: 2011-02-13
+Status: Draft / incomplete
+*GLOBAL* data layout (ignoring any UI stuff or implementation details):
+ Format: (in case it's not obvious)
+ - field with a single value
+ - field with multiple values
+ - subfield - field for each value in the above field
+ New DB item: Trait (not versioned, moderated; similar to tags)
+ - name
+ - aliases
+ - description
+ - parents (multiple parents; similar to tags)
+ - state (new/approved/deleted; similar to tags)
+ - added by (similar to tags)
+ New DB item: Character (versioned) (without instances)
+ - name
+ - original name
+ - aliases / nicknames
+ - image
+ - description
+ - 3 sizes
+ - height and weight
+ - birthday (day and month only; year rarely known and hardly practical)
+ - list of traits
+ - trait ID
+ - spoiler flag
+ - list of VNs
+ - VN id
+ - release id
+ - spoiler flag ("the fact that this character appears in this game is a spoiler")
+ - role
+ - link to "main" character + spoiler indication
+ (UNUSED) New DB item: Character (versioned) (instance idea)
+ - aliases / nicknames (misc. not names of instances)
+ - default instance
+ - instances (at least one for each character)
+ - name
+ - original name
+ - image
+ - description
+ - spoiler flag
+ - 3 sizes
+ - age? birthday?
+ - list of traits
+ - trait ID
+ - spoiler level
+ - list of VNs
+ - VN id
+ - role (protagonist, primary character, side character, appears in)
+ - list of releases (none implies all)
+ "Same character" spoiler problems:
+ Case 1: (relatively common)
+ The characters themselves are not spoilers, but the fact that they are the same is.
+ Examples (ROT13):
+ Symphonic Rain: Cubeav & Nevrggn
+ Fate/stay night: Nepure & Fuvebh
+ How to handle:
+ With instances: no solution found yet, other than not using instances
+ Without instances: character relation with spoiler flag set
+ Case 2: (not very uncommon)
+ The entire existence of a character is a spoiler.
+ Examples (ROT13):
+ Ever17: Oyvpx Jvaxry
+ Aoishiro: Arxngn? Lnfhuvzr?
+ How to handle:
+ With instances: make the instance a spoiler (would take care of everything)
+ Without instances: the relation with the VN should be marked a spoiler
+ Case 3: (pretty uncommon)
+ What appears to be a single character turns out to be multiple characters in the end.
+ (this one sucks...)
+ Examples:
+ Ever17: Xvq (Ubxhgb & Elbtb), Lbh ('Nxv naq 'Uneh)
+ How to handle:
+ With instances: (ugly, but does the trick)
+ make one character entry with two or three instances: one with what
+ the game wants you to believe and use other instances for the actual
+ characters (set to spoiler).
+ Without instances:
+ make a separate entry for each character that the game wants you to
+ believe is a single character, and separate entries for the actual
+ characters. link them together and to VNs with spoiler markins.
+ Traits vs. fields:
+ - Preferably, we'd put as much data in traits, since these are flexible
+ - However, we do want to have some basic information (e.g. gender, apparent
+ age) to be specified early on (e.g. with a dropdown selection). And we also
+ want them to be nicely ordered on the charpage (e.g. Gender: male).
+ - It would be nice if it were also possible to limit the selection of some
+ tags to only one for a specific category. E.g. A character can only have
+ one "Gender" trait. But this isn't all that important, since I doubt users
+ are *that* stupid and traits are part of the characters' revisioning
+ system, which means everything can be moderated quite easily.
+ - "Displaying everything nice on a characters' page"-solutions:
+ 1. Table-layout with a "Parent: trait1, trait2" listing, where parent is
+ the top trait (i.e. without parents). Traits with multiple parents will
+ have to be listed multiple times.
+ 2. Same as above, but add a boolean flag "category" to the traits. The
+ traits with this flag set will be used in the table instead of the
+ top-traits. This allows more flexibility of the trait tree, but is more
+ complex to implement.
+ Linking "same character"s together (without instances):
+ - It is possible to handle this with a regular char<->char "is the same as"
+ relation. This can become annoying when there are many entries that are
+ the same. For example, if there are four characters (A-D), then there are
+ many different ways to link these together with that relation:
+ "Linked list"-style: A=B; B=A,C; C=B,D; D=C
+ "Binary Tree"-style: A=B,C; B=A,D; C=A; D=B
+ "Everything"-style: A=B,C,D; B=A,C,D; C=A,B,D; D=A,B,C
+ That is quite annoying, both to the user and in the code. :-(
+ On the upside, since every relation has a "spoiler" option, this does allow
+ some flexibility: A=B and C=D may be spoilers, but B=C does not have to be.
+ - An alternative approach: "parent"->"child" relations (let's call them
+ main->guise relations (thank you AniDB), since the CS terminology fails
+ here).
+ To explain: each "guise" character can be linked to a single "main"
+ character (with spoiler flag). As a restriction, this "main" character can
+ not itself be linked to an other character as "guise" again. This gives us
+ an easy structure to work with. With the above example, using "A" as "main"
+ character (and "->" is "links to"): A; B->A; C->A, D->A.
+ This approach is actually extremely similar to the idea of using instances:
+ the data structure created with these links is equivalent to the structure
+ with instances. The main differences are the implementation and the idea
+ that the "instances" themselves are centric rather than their "main
+ character". This idea also prevents the issue of "same character spoiling:
+ case 1".
+ Misc. questions:
+ - How to handle cases where in an original release a character only played a
+ side role, while in a later release this character would get a route?
+ This isn't entirely uncommon... Possible solutions:
+ 1. Allow a character to be linked to the same VN more than once with
+ different role and different releases. This solves the problem, but would
+ make it hard to generate a nice overview of all characters in a VN
+ (covering all its releases).
+ 2. Move the "role" field as a subfield of the release links. This is
+ probably a better idea...
+ But I'm going with option 1 anyway, since is easier and more efficient.
+ - Similar to the above, are there cases where in an original release the
+ existance of a character is a spoiler, while in a later release it is not?
+ Can't think if any...
+ - "Has route" indication?
+ This obviously doesn't work for all VNs, since routes are not always linked
+ to characters. In the case that it does work, it should probably be a
+ subfield of the release links (see the "role" thing above).
+ Better yet, we should have a "route database". For the future. >_>
+ - "Age" field? Bad idea?
+ - May differ per release even when nothing else changed (hello JAST USA).
+ Can be handled by adding a new character and linking and stuff, but isn't
+ worth the trouble)
+ - Conflicting information. For example: When heroines are 1st grade high
+ school but it is stated in the beginning that "all characters are at
+ least 18 years old"
+ - Just a bad idea in general, since there are quite a few fuckable
+ 10-years-olds, and explicitely stating that is not a very nice thing.
+ Traits vs. VN tags (not very important for now):
+ - Ideally, some character traits would imply VN tags.
+ - For example: a VN that has a character linked to it with the "vampire"
+ trait, the VN should have the "Vampire" tag.
+ - Correctly implementing this would be hard, but it is possible to get Multi
+ to add auto-votes with some rules. This would require traits to have an
+ "implies" relation with tags.
+ - "Level" setting can be partly determined from the importance of the role of
+ the character. Though this will just be a wild guess.
+ - "Spoiler" setting is inherited, though unknown which level it should have.
+ The following might work:
+ tag spoiler = 0
+ tag spoiler +1 if the character-VN link is a spoiler
+ tag spoiler +1 if the tag-character link is a spoiler
+ Ever17 example (with instances, SPOILERS):
+ These examples are not technically correct, since the two "You"s are two
+ separate characters, and there is no such thing as "Kid". But the following
+ example would do the trick in a way that is neither spoilerous, nor
+ completely wrong.
+ You:
+ alias: You, Nakkyu
+ Instance #1:
+ | name: Yubiseiharukana Tanaka
+ | VNs: v17, all releases, primary character
+ | spoiler: no
+ Instance #2:
+ | name: Yubiseiakikana Tanaka
+ | VNs: v17, all releases, side character
+ | spoiler: yes
+ Kid:
+ alias: Kid
+ Instance #1:
+ | name: Shounen
+ | description: Doesn't even remember his own name, dumbass! Protagonist in the 2034 routes.
+ | VNs: v17, all releases, protagonist
+ | spoiler: no
+ Instance #2:
+ | name: Ryogo Kaburaki
+ | description: "kid" in 2017, "Takeshi" in 2034
+ | VNs: v17, all releases, primary character
+ | spoiler: yes
+ Instance #3:
+ | name: Hokuto
+ | description: "kid" in 2034, son of Tsugumi and Takeshi
+ | VNs: v17, all releases, protagonist
+ | spoiler: yes
+ Without instances: make a separate character entry for each of the above
+ instances and set the appropriate spoiler flags.
+The term "instance":
+ To make things extra confusing, the term "instance" has two meanings:
+ 1. In the above part (global data layout) and in Maou's original draft, it
+ refers to a special database entry of type "instance", separate from the type
+ "character".
+ 2. In the rest of this document, I'm using it to mean a character entry which
+ has the "main character" field set. In the global data layout I used the term
+ "guise", but I believe "instance" is better.
+User interface considerations:
+ Pages to consider:
+ - trait page
+ - trait edit
+ - trait listing / overview
+ - character page
+ - character edit
+ - character listing / search
+ - VN page (list of characters)
+ Trait page:
+ URI: /i+
+ Similar to tag page: basic description + listing of characters.
+ The listing of characters includes all characters linked to child traits.
+ (same as with tags)
+ Trait edit:
+ URI: /i+/edit, /i/new
+ The regular add/edit form.
+ Trait listing / overview:
+ URI: /i
+ Just be creative with this, can be similar to the tag overview.
+ Character page:
+ URI: /c+
+ If the character is not an instance (i.e. it has no "main character"):
+ Display the information of the requested character, followed by that of
+ all instances linked to it. (spoilerous instances are hidden by default).
+ If the character is an instance:
+ - Display the information of the requested character, followed by a link
+ to its main character? (if it's not a spoiler of course).
+ - Or make no distinction between "Main character" and "instance", and
+ simply display all information or the main character and its other
+ instances on the same page? (similar to the main character page). This
+ is sligtly counter-intuitive when the relation between the instance and
+ its main character is a spoiler: in that case all the related entries
+ would be hidden, rather than only those of which their relation is a
+ spoiler. (See global data layout -> same character linking above for a
+ discussion).
+ Information display for a single character:
+ Name
+ (orig name)
+ [image] [table]
+ [description]
+ table:
+ | Name: <name>
+ | Original name: <orig>
+ | ...
+ | Visual novels: Role - VN title
+ | VN title 2
+ | > Role - release title
+ | > Role - other releases
+ | Trait group #1: Trait1, trait2, ..
+ | Trait group #2: ..
+ Character edit:
+ URI: /c+/edit
+ This requires some thinking...
+ - Batch-edit-with-instances:
+ Instances more often than not share quite a bit of information with each
+ other. When editing a character that is an instance or has instances, the
+ edit page should preferably contain the char-edit-form for all related
+ characters, and automatically link fields that are the same for all
+ instances together. E.g. each field could have a checkbox indicating
+ "same as main character", in which case editing the field in the main
+ character would update that of the instances as well.
+ This is slightly more annoying with traits, since this should be done on
+ a per-trait basis.
+ - VN-linking:
+ Just mirror the structure of the chars_traits table:
+ <VN title> <release dropdown> <spoiler checkbox> <role dropdown>
+ A VN can be added more than once to select other releases. This isn't all
+ that intuitive, but is simple to implement and does the job.
+ - Trait linking interface? How will it work together with the
+ batch-edit-with-instances and copying over traits from the main
+ character?
+ Character listing / search:
+ URI: /c
+ Nothing special.
+ VN page (list of characters):
+ URI: /v+ (stays the same, obviously)
+ Add tabs above the "Releases" box with two items: "Main" and "Characters".
+ "Main": Displays the usual "Releases" / "User stats" / "Screenshots" boxes
+ "Characters": Displays a list of characters linked to that VN,
+ getchu-style. Spoilerous characters are hidden by default.
+ JS-tabs vs. new URI:
+ JS tabs are nicer, but require all character information to be sent with
+ each pageview on the VN page. This is heavy on the server and slows down
+ page loading. This can be avoided by loading the character data using
+ AJAX when the tab is opened, but I'm not very fond of using AJAX in this
+ way. So in that sense a separate URI may be a better idea. E.g. /v+/chars
+ Listing:
+ Order by role: protag -> main chars -> side -> etc
+ Display image + quite a bit of information for protag + main chars,
+ followed by a plain and simple (table) listing of "other characters".
+ Misc. stuff:
+ - Do we want to be able to search for VNs that have a character with a
+ certain trait? For example, to get a listing of all VNs that have a
+ "vampire" character. This will be very heavy on the server if it were
+ implemented without some form of caching, and may not be very useful if
+ you can't set other constraints as well (e.g. it must be a main character
+ in the VN).
+ People will definitely complain if they can't search on their "Genius
+ protagonist" tag anymore. >_>
+The SQL schema:
+ CREATE TABLE traits (
+ name varchar(250) NOT NULL UNIQUE,
+ description text NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
+ meta boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT false,
+ added timestamptz NOT NULL DEFAULT NOW(),
+ state smallint NOT NULL DEFAULT 0,
+ addedby integer NOT NULL DEFAULT 0 REFERENCES users (id)
+ );
+ CREATE TABLE traits_aliases (
+ alias varchar(250) NOT NULL PRIMARY KEY,
+ trait integer NOT NULL REFERENCES traits (id)
+ );
+ CREATE TABLE traits_parents (
+ trait integer NOT NULL REFERENCES traits (id),
+ parent integer NOT NULL REFERENCES traits (id),
+ PRIMARY KEY(trait, parent)
+ );
+ CREATE TABLE chars (
+ latest integer NOT NULL DEFAULT 0 REFERENCES chars_rev (id),
+ locked boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT FALSE,
+ hidden boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT FALSE
+ );
+ CREATE TABLE chars_rev (
+ id integer NOT NULL PRIMARY KEY REFERENCES changes (id),
+ cid integer NOT NULL REFERENCES chars (id),
+ name varchar(250) NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
+ original varchar(250) NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
+ alias varchar(500) NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
+ image integer NOT NULL DEFAULT 0,
+ "desc" text NOT NULL DEFAULT '',
+ s_bust smallint NOT NULL DEFAULT 0, -- in cm
+ s_waist smallint NOT NULL DEFAULT 0,
+ s_hip smallint NOT NULL DEFAULT 0,
+ b_month smallint NOT NULL DEFAULT 0, -- birthday
+ b_day smallint NOT NULL DEFAULT 0,
+ height smallint NOT NULL DEFAULT 0, -- in cm
+ weight smallint NOT NULL DEFAULT 0, -- in kg
+ main integer REFERENCES chars (id),
+ main_spoil boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT false
+ );
+ CREATE TABLE chars_traits (
+ cid integer NOT NULL REFERENCES chars_rev (id),
+ tid integer NOT NULL REFERENCES traits (id),
+ spoil boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT false, -- boolean or smallint?
+ PRIMARY KEY(cid, tid)
+ );
+ CREATE TABLE chars_vns (
+ cid integer NOT NULL REFERENCES chars_rev (id),
+ vid integer NOT NULL REFERENCES vn (id),
+ rid integer REFERENCES releases (id), -- NULL = "all releases"
+ spoil boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT false,
+ role char_role NOT NULL DEFAULT 'main',
+ PRIMARY KEY(cid, vid, rid)
+ );
+ -- this one is probably required to speed up character-by-trait search.
+ -- Similar to chars_traits, but has two differences:
+ -- 1. all parent tags are included here
+ -- 2. unversioned. i.e. it links to the chars table instead of chars_rev.
+ CREATE TABLE chars_traits_inherit (
+ cid integer NOT NULL REFERENCES chars (id),
+ tid integer NOT NULL REFERENCES traits (id),
+ spoil boolean NOT NULL DEFAULT false, -- boolean or smallint?
+ PRIMARY KEY(cid, tid)
+ );
+The original Maou draft (which I use as a sort of guideline / inspiration):
+ Each game has a list of characters.
+ Each "character" has:
+ 0. an ID (cXXX)
+ 1. a name (mandatory)
+ 2. original (kanji/kana)
+ 3. alias, nicknames
+ 4. a portray/pic (if so desired, move to instance)
+ 5. a list of instances (mandatory)
+ Instances:
+ 0. an ID (iXXX)
+ 1. a vn (mandatory)
+ 2. a list of releases
+ 3. a description - what it says on the label
+ 4. a traitlist
+ 5. a commentlist
+ Traits(have spoilerratings and inheritance, but are not votable):
+ 1st Trait (mandatory when creating): Role - protagonist, Heroine, Side Character, Antagonist
+ 2nd Trait ( " " " ): Sex - male, female, both?
+ following traits should describe the character, our current character tags could prolly be converted for that
+ commentlist: People can post (short) opinions about a character quickly...
+ Users can edit/delete their own entries, mods can edit/delete everything.
+ Q: Why instances?
+ A: Characters often reappear in other games by the same company - works by
+ age are just one example. More often that not, they change between their
+ appearances - most obviously, their role changes, but their other
+ characteristics may also change to do artistic license, different PoV or
+ (gasp) character development. The alternative to this would be to add each
+ version as a new character and then link them together, but the end-result
+ would look rather silly for longer series IMHO.
+ Q: How would adding a character work? How would adding new instances work?
+ A: When adding a character you'd create the first instance together with the
+ character. When you decide to add another instance, you start with the
+ currently selected instance as base - so you'd just have to make the
+ necessary adjustments.
+ Q: How would characters be displayed?
+ A: VN Characterlist (part of/accessible from the VN page): All characters of
+ the VN together, ordered Protagonist > Heroine > Sidekick > Antagonist, with
+ the applicable instance only.
+ Characterpage: Just a single character (think release page), toggle/dropdown
+ menu/whatever to switch between instances. Hide traits above a set
+ spoilerlevel (as we're doing with tags already).
+ Q: How would searching work?
+ A: Enter a combination of traits you're looking for (with exclusions - find
+ all swordwielding heroines that DO NOT have the "has rapescene" trait), get a
+ list of games that have the characters (instances) in question. If the trait
+ in question is a spoiler, the charactername shouldn't be displayed, else it
+ should be presented together with the VN.
+ Q: What about Seiyuu?
+ A: Just link to the corresponding entry in the StaffDB... <_<
+ Release-sensitive Instances:
+ Normally, the list contains all releases of the VN in question. (If a new
+ release is added it will be added to that list per default (if there are
+ multiple instances for that VN, it should be selectable from a dropdown
+ menu). Adding new instances for releases would work identical to adding a
+ new instance for another VN (with the difference that when you add an
+ instance to a release, all other instance remove said VN from their list).
+ If a character has multiple instances for a single VN, the applicable
+ releases would be displayed in the character list and the user would be
+ able to switch between the instances (similar to the character page).
+ The advantage of this is that it covers everything. The drawback is that it
+ is more work intensive and complex.
+ NOTE: Add only new instances for full versions, NOT for trials
+ List of Relations:
+ 5 possibilities:
+ Instance <-> Instance, display on a simple map
+ if they're multiple instances, they're all displayed together with (<->
+ same character) relations between them
+ Instance <-> Instance, display on dynamic map
+ display each character once, but allow to switch between the various
+ instances while viewing the map, with the relations being redrawn based on
+ the relations the new instance (and instances being replaced/added based
+ where necessary)
+ Instance <-> Instance. display release-centric
+ first, display the relations of the instances that belong to the release
+ and connect them. Ignore any that don't belong to the release. Then draw
+ relations to instances which aren't part of the current VN. Allow to switch
+ between the various releases with different relation map easily)
+ Instance <-> Instance, display instances as a single character,
+ colourcode relations depending on what instances it applies to (with legend
+ for which colour belongs to what release/instances)
+ Character <-> Character, what it says
+ simplistic, not suitable for longer series and more complex universes
+ Examples:
+ c1
+ PORTRAY: (prolly taken from the getchu page)
+ INSTANCES: i1, i2
+ i1
+ VN: v548
+ RELEASES: r1132, r1133
+ DESCRIPTION: 5th Seat, Leonhard August.
+ TRAITS: Antagonist Heroine, Female, Long Hair, Black Hair, Coodere, Lacks
+ Ending, Has Optional Sex eroscene, Swordwielding, Immortal (Spoiler 1),
+ Maou's Harem
+ COMMENTS: Maou(One of my favourite heroines, sadly she's lacking a route.)
+ i2
+ VN: v548
+ RELEASES: r3228
+ DESCRIPTION: 5th Seat, Leonhard August.
+ TRAITS: Antagonist Heroine, Female, Long Hair, Black Hair, Coodere, Has
+ Ending, Has Sex Scenes, Swordwielding, Immortal (Spoiler 1), Maou's Harem
+ COMMENTS: Maou(Perfect), RandomPerson(Interesting character)
+ really short traittree:
+ Traits(Role(Protagonist, Heroine (Antagonist Heroine - also child of
+ Antagonist)), Sidekick, Antagonist), Gender (Male, Female, Both, Other),
+ Appearance(Hair(Long Hair, Black Hair)), Personality(Deretypes(classic
+ Tsundere, Tsundere, Deredere, Coodere)), Significance(Routes(Has End(Has
+ True End), Lacks End), Has Sex Scenes(Has Insignificant/Optional
+ eroscene, has rapescene (has unavoidable rapescene))), Relation(Sister,
+ Senpai, Osananajimi), Vocation(Fighting (Swordwielding, Knight), Hacker),
+ Other(Idiot Friend, Immortal, Maou's Harem)
+ Ok, just kidding about the Harem thing <_<